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Title
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
00:30
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GORMAN ORIGINALLY JOINED THE AMALGAMATED MEAT CUTTERS AND BUTCHER WORKMEN OF NORTH AMERICA (AMC&BW) BECAUSE EVERYONE BELONGED TO THE UNION WHERE HE WORKED : His Louisville, Kentucky, local union survived the 1904 packinghouse workers strike because its contract did not expire until 1905.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
02:35
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THE 1904 PACKINGHOUSE STRIKE : Four thousand policemen in Chicago to protect scabs. National Guard sent in elsewhere.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
04:40
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HARDSHIP OF THE 1904 STRIKE MADE THE CHILDREN OF THOSE STRIKERS ANTI-UNION AND VERY DIFFICULT TO ORGANIZE IN 1920'S AND 1930'S
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
0:00
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CREATION OF THE PACKINGHOUSE WORKERS ORGANIZING COMMITTEE (PWOC) : The CIO “was just the thing for the packinghouse workers; and they joined.”
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
06:45
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RIVALRY BETWEEN THE UNITED PACKINGHOUSE WORKERS (UPWA) AND THE AMC&BW : It was constant. When one would have a strike, the other would try to lure the strikers.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
07:30
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UPWA - AMC&BW MERGER IN 1968 : An unhappy union for a long time afterward because the UPWA did not think the AMC&BW was progressive enough. UPWA wanted “strikes, strikes, strikes.” AMC&BW wanted “contracts, contracts, contracts. That was the basic difference between the two.”
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
09:20
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WHY THE AMC&BW DID NOT AFFILIATE WITH THE CIO : Large Catholic “foreign” membership. Gorman feels AMC&BW was able to remain neutral and to maintain friendship with unions in both the AFL and the CIO. Gorman has an autographed photo from John L. Lewis, signed “to my best friend, Pat Gorman.”
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
10:40
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AMC&BW TRADITION OF MERGER AND OF RECONCILIATION WITH ITS OWN DISSIDENTS MADE MERGER WITH UPWA EASIER
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
12:15
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HISTORY OF MERGER TALKS WITH THE RETAIL CLERKS INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION (RCIA) : Gorman and James Suffridge began talking shortly after Suffridge became RCIA President. Suffridge felt the chain stores would be very difficult to organize if the two unions remained separate. Suffridge, his Secretary-Treasurer Vernon Housewright, and Gorman and his President Earl Jimerson, would play pool in Suffridge's basement and discuss merger. When the RCIA moved from Lafayette, Indiana, to Washington, D.C., merger talks ended. Gorman hints that one hang up was who would get what office in the proposed merged union.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
17:05
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MERGER OF THE RCIA AND THE AMC&BW : Serious merger talks resumed when the leaders of the two unions attended a legislative gathering in Washington, D.C., and AMC&BW vice-president Leon Schachter suggested AMC&BW leaders approach RCIA President James Housewright, since everyone was in an amiable mood. This occurred about 1970. When William Wynn became President of RCIA, he seemed more eager for merger than anyone else.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
21:45
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ANECDOTE ABOUT GORMAN'S FORMER LAW FIRM TRYING TO LURE HIM BACK TO WORK WITH THEM : To keep him, the AMC&BW at its 1964 convention guaranteed Gorman his salary for life.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
24:15
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IMPORTANT ROLE OF VICE-PRESIDENT HARRY POOLE IN RCIA MERGER TALKS
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
26:50
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ONE REASON FOR MERGER WAS RCIA HAD MORE QUALIFIED YOUNG LEADERS
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END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
00:30
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HOW GORMAN BECAME EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF AMC&BW IN 1920 : Secretary-Treasurer Dennis Lane had lined up the delegates to dump President John Hart, but Gorman gave a speech which turned the balance to Hart's favor. Hart then insisted on creation of the office of Executive Vice President and gave the post to Gorman as a reward.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
04:35
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INTERNAL POLITICKING IN AMC&BW DURING THE 1920's : Hart's resignation (1921) and Cornelius Hayes' elevation to the presidency. Lane was still in control and prevented Gorman's succession to the presidency as punishment for his role in the 1920 convention. By the time Hayes resigned (1923), however, the balance of power had shifted to Gorman and German hints that Lane would have been removed if he had attempted to prevent Gorman's succession to the presidency.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
09:25
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RELATIVE PEACE WITHIN THE AMC&BW : While the union had internal animosities between the various divisions of the industry, it did not have the severe internal fights that other unions suffered.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
10:50
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GORMAN DID THE SAME THING FOR LANE IN 1940 THAT HE DID FOR HART IN 1920 : Lane was sick and unpopular, but Gorman stopped the attempt to refuse Lane re-election.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
12:40
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LANE'S SCHEME TO MAKE THE AMC&BW THE RICHEST UNION IN THE COUNTRY : He bought 80,000 oil-rich acres in South Dakota, but the union lost the land before it could be developed.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
15:35
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BECAUSE OF WORKING PROXIMITY, LANE AND GORMAN DEVELOPED A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP OVER THE YEARS DESPITE EARLY ANIMOSITY
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
17:15
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AMC&BW LEADERS HAVE ALWAYS MAINTAINED A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE RANK AND FILE
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
18:20
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ANECDOTE ABOUT GORMAN'S ROLE IN SIOUX CITY, IOWA, DURING 1921 STRIKE : When he arrived in town, the strikers insisted he give a speech despite the presence of National Guardsmen and a great deal of tension. The mass rally ended up with the sheriff shot and three people killed.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
21:50
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VIOLENCE IN CHICAGO DURING THE 1921 STRIKE : Some strikers would mug scabs on pay day.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
23:45
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DESPITE LEADING “ILLEGAL” PARADES AND GIVING INFLAMMATORY SPEECHES, GORMAN WAS NEVER ARRESTED
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
24:15
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GORMAN'S TRADE UNION PHILOSOPHY : Collective bargaining the only defense for workers. Favored industrial organizing from the first. Lifelong socialist and solid Roman Catholic.
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END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
00:30
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GORMAN ON CIVIL RIGHTS : He was more advanced than most labor leaders because he lived in an integrated neighborhood until he was fourteen years old and his mother used to walk to church with a black woman every Sunday.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
03:00
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FELLOWSHIP AND GAINING MEMBERS' CONFIDENCE WERE THE KEY FACTORS IN ORGANIZING IN THE 1920's
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
04:25
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ORGANIZING PIGGLY WIGGLY : Gorman helped Clarence Saunders of Piggly Wiggly save face in resolving a sticky grievance and this helped solidify their relationship.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
09:50
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THE SAFEWAY MASTER AGREEMENT : Gorman and Safeway's personnel man played three games of horseshoes. Gorman won two out of three and Safeway agreed not to oppose the union's organizing efforts.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
14:25
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A & P : Won over by Gorman's efforts to defeat anti-chain store legislation (the Patman Bill). Gorman spoke against a pro-Patnam Bill resolution at an AFL convention, winning over AFL President William Green and defeating the resolution.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
17:55
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ANECDOTE ABOUT SETTLING NINE MONTH STRIKE IN LOUISVILLE'S LARGEST PACKINGHOUSE PLANT : Gorman had a striker rough up the boss so that Gorman could come to the rescue, thus providing an entree for resuming talks. Although the strike was lost, Gorman convinced the boss that the union would go back to work without a pay raise if all strikers were returned to their old jobs.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
22:20
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ANECDOTE ABOUT SETTLING ANOTHER VERY LONG STRIKE BY PERSONALIZING THE WORDING OF THE PICKET SIGNS
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
24:40
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GORMAN'S UNIFYING SPEECH BEFORE THE BRITISH TRADE UNION CONGRESS : The Congress was split bitterly between communists and anti-communists. Gorman brought about unity by chastising the delegates for putting politics before the workers. His speech made the front pages of the London newspapers.
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END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1 : Tape 2, Side 2 is blank.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
00:30
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WHY THE AMC&BW DID NOT JOIN THE CIO : Loyalty to the AFL. AMC&BW was not anti-CIO.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
01:55
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ANALYSIS OF AFL WEAKNESSES : Gorman sees some truth in Eugene Debs' claim that AFL President Samuel Gompers was partially responsible for defeat of the Pullman Strike. Gompers changed from an old socialist to an anti-socialist.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
04:35
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IN SOME CASES THE EXISTENCE OF THE CIO WAS AN AID TO AMC&BW ORGANIZING : Particularly in the beginning when John L. Lewis ordered the CIO not to organize workers eligible to join the AMC&BW, particularly meat cutters in the coal regions.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
05:45
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PWOC AND AMC&BW RAIDING WAS CONSTANT
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
06:05
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STRONG SENTIMENT AMONGST AMC&BW PACKINGHOUSE WORKERS FOR AMC&BW TO JOIN CIO
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
07:05
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COOPERATION BETWEEN UPWA AND AMC&BW : Less cooperation after World War II, but also less interference in each other's activities.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
09:50
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1948 UPWA STRIKE : Gorman did not want the packers to give UPWA any more than the AMC&BW had settled for. He did not expect the defeat of the strike to hurt the UPWA much because its members were put back to work in the industry; the union was not busted.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
12:00
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UPWA AND AMC&BW UNITED IN THEIR DISLIKE OF PRESIDENT TRUMAN'S SECRETARY OF LABOR, L. SCHWELLENBACH
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
13:00
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AMC&BW PACKINGHOUSE WORKERS HAD MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT UPWA 1948 STRIKE
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
15:55
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AMC&BW AND UPWA COOPERATION IN 1960'S : In the years just prior to the merger AMC&BW, when possible, would aid UPWA strikes by refusing to handle struck goods.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
16:25
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REUTHER, MEANY, AND THE AFL-CIO MERGER : Reuther could out talk Meany. Meany was critical of everyone who would not agree with him.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
18:35
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ANECDOTE ABOUT UPWA - AMC&BW MERGER ANNOUNCEMENT AT THE AFL-CIO CONVENTION : AFL-CIO Secretary-Treasurer William Schnitzler put them up to it for the symbolism involved. In fact, the merger talks were not at all that far along. “It was all a fake.”
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
20:25
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AMC&BW - UPWA MERGER : Close to merger on more than one occasion. The merger convention in 1968 was a “hot convention.” Tensions continued for sometime afterward. It was never “a merger of love.” The UPWA felt the AMC&BW “belonged to a different age.” AMC&BW felt there were too many people in the UPWA who favored communism. Arguments in the halls of the headquarters building continued for some time.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
23:40
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RALPH HELSTEIN, PRESIDENT OF UPWA : Highly educated, “an excellent trade unionist.” “Did a damned good job for the labor movement.”
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
24:15
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MARRIAGE WITH THE UPWA NEVER WAS SMOOTH : Meat cutters continued to believe UPWA was communist.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
25:20
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AMC&BW MERGER WITH THE FUR AND LEATHER WORKERS UNION : AMC&BW came very close to being thrown out of the AFL because of this merger. AFL Executive Council met to determine AMC&BW's future relationship with the Federation. Meany said the AMC&BW would be thrown out of the AFL if it insisted on merging with the communist-dominated Fur and Leather Workers. Gorman responded with an emotional, tear-filled farewell speech.
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END OF TAPE 3, SIDE 1
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Tape/Side
3/2
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
3/2
Time
00:30
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CONTINUATION OF STORY OF AFL APPROVAL OF AMC&BW MERGER WITH FUR AND LEATHER WORKERS : Meany was moved by Gorman's speech. David Dubinsky, who was closer to Meany than anyone else on the Council, then spoke in favor of the merger and in favor of keeping the AMC&BW in the AFL. Meany then told Gorman that the AFL removed all objections to the merger, but he did not give formal approval and never did.
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Tape/Side
3/2
Time
05:35
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GORMAN'S BATTLES WITH MEANY OVER EXPULSIONS FROM THE AFL-CIO, PARTICULARLY THE TEAMSTERS : Teamsters helped organize many AMC&BW members.
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Tape/Side
3/2
Time
07:25
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TEAMSTERS AND AMC&BW BATTLE WITH BANQUET BRAND FOODS : Teamster President James Hoffa refused to settle with Banquet unless the company also recognized the AMC&BW.
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Tape/Side
3/2
Time
14:05
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AMC&BW'S LACK OF A SEAT ON THE AFL-CIO EXECUTIVE COUNCIL : For a long time AMC&BW did not care; Gorman personally did not really want to be on the Council. AMC&BW finally pushed the issue just to test the democracy of the AFL-CIO. Meany offered to give Gorman the next vacancy if he would withdraw his candidacy, but the AMC&BW, particularly President Thomas J. (“Jack”) Lloyd, would not permit it. Although Gorman lost, his strong showing surprised everyone. Gorman knew then he would never be offered a seat on the Council. After Gorman retired, AMC&BW President Harry Poole was finally put on the Council.
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Tape/Side
3/2
Time
20:40
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GORMAN AND MEANY DIFFERENCES ON INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, PARTICULARLY THE INTERNATIONAL LABOR ORGANIZATION
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Tape/Side
3/2
Time
21:50
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GORMAN'S ANTI-COMMUNISM BASED ON HIS BELIEF IN CHRISTIANITY
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END OF TAPE 3, SIDE 2
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
00:30
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OPPOSITION TO MERGER WITH UPWA : Opposition was stronger amongst the meat cutters, but also existed amongst AMC&BW's packinghouse workers. Felt the UPWA was too radical and hard to control, too willing to strike. Vice-president Leon Schachter held out against the merger until the end.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
02:10
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MUSINGS ON THE CONDITION OF MAN AND THE WORLD : Things are not good, but Gorman is optimistic that a better world is coming.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
05:40
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CREATION OF THE UNITED FOOD AND COMMERCIAL WORKERS UNION : “The best thing that ever happened,” provided the leadership retains a feeling for the membership.
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END OF INTERVIEW
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