Oral History Interviews of the Janesville Bicentennial Labor Oral History Project, 1976-1977

Container Title
March 14, 1978 Session
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   00:00
Introduction
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   00:40
Baldanzi Attempt to Oust Southern Regional Director Roy Lawrence in 1948
Scope and Content Note: Tried to enlist Stetin's support and to get Stetin to move to North Carolina, but Rieve opposed the plan and Stetin deferred to Rieve's judgment since Rieve was the top man.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   03:15
August, 1948, Stetin Took Over Pennsylvania
Scope and Content Note: This to make room for Charles Serraino, as New Jersey Director. Continued handling the organizing of New Jersey as well as taking over the administration and organization of Pennsylvania.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   04:15
Operation Dixie
Scope and Content Note: With the schism within TWUA, the organizing drive was not as wholehearted as in past organizing efforts.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   06:15
Problems Were Created by Baldanzi's Relationships with Various Employers in Paterson Area
Scope and Content Note: Militant in some areas but conservative in others.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   06:50
Baldanzi's Involvement in Affairs of Passaic Joint Board, 1948
Scope and Content Note: Friction was developing over this; Stetin was director and Serraino was manager. This involvement ultimately led to the incident of the southern regional directorship, and to Serraino and Stetin taking over New Jersey and Pennsylvania respectively.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   08:30
Baldanzi's Involvement in Affairs of TWUA in General
Scope and Content Note: Became obvious to many people that Baldanzi was injecting himself too much into the Union's internal affairs in various areas and bypassing Regional Directors. He was undermining Rieve's position and building a base of support in Passaic instead of helping make a breakthrough in the South.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   10:10
Baldanzi's Unethical Practices Caused Stetin to Turn Away from Him
Scope and Content Note: Baldanzi asked for investigation of a TWUA official (Joe Knapik); then reversed himself when the investigation was mounted. Stetin became suspicious and began to investigate. Stetin feels this led to his transfer from New Jersey. Baldanzi was encouraging employers to do business with his brothers.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   14:35
Anecdote Concerning Stetin and Favoritism
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   15:55
TWUA and Business Favoritism
Scope and Content Note: On Stetin's instigation Executive Council informs employers it does not encourage their advertising in Union newspapers. TWUA adopted an Ethical Practices Code long before the AFL-CIO.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   17:00
Stetin's Personal Decision on Rieve/Baldanzi Issue
Scope and Content Note: Baldanzi's interference in the proper administration of TWUA, the intrigue it caused, and Stetin's personal morals and ethics all played roles in his decision to support Rieve. Stetin did not discuss with other Union members his opinion of Baldanzi's ethics.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   19:50
Baldanzi's Public Statements and His Private Actions Were Not Always Synonymous
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   20:25
Basic Cause of the Split in the Union
Scope and Content Note: Personal political ambition was a factor and Baldanzi was able to motivate many young intellectuals within the Union, who saw him as a crusader, and saw Rieve as crusty and crude.
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   21:20
Anecdote Concerning a Delegate Mimicking Rieve at a Meeting
Tape/Side   5/1
Time   21:45
Anecdote Concerning Rieve, Stetin, and the Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), and Rieve's Use of Psychology
Scope and Content Note: Both Stetin and Rieve were active in ADA. Rieve supported Dwight Eisenhower as Democratic presidential candidate; and Stetin, in Philadelphia, was opposing Ike as Democratic presidential candidate. Rieve used the incident as an excuse to invite Stetin into New York and to discuss a wide variety of issues informally and leisurely.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   00:00
Introduction
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   00:30
More on the Basic Cause of the Split
Scope and Content Note: No philosophical or ideological issues separated the two sides. Baldanzi wanted to be more influential within the Union; and, though he did not want to take Rieve's job, he did not like Rieve making all the decisions. The resulting politics interfered greatly with the main job of the Union - organizing the unorganized.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   03:35
Beginnings of the Split - Prior to 1948
Scope and Content Note: Baldanzi opposed a health insurance plan for New Bedford, which thwarted the plan and kept this type of plan out of the TWUA for a decade. [Apparently Stetin is here referring to Baldanzi's opposition to attempts to set up a jointly-sponsored TWUA-employer group health plan, because the 1943 New Bedford contract (as well as many other TWUA contracts at the time) did provide health insurance. It was not until the late 1950s, however, that the TWUA Welfare Fund was created.] Baldanzi would discuss with Stetin minor criticisms of Rieve.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   06:40
The Fight Could Have Been Avoided
Scope and Content Note: Rieve was pressured by some of the people in New England who were themselves very ambitious, particularly Mariano Bishop.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   08:35
Why Bishop Was Chosen to Run Against Baldanzi in 1950
Scope and Content Note: He represented many powerful groups in New England; he had begun to spend more time in the South as Cotton-Rayon Director. Stetin questioned Bishop's right to move up.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   09:40
Herb Payne Was Stetin's Choice to Run Against Baldanzi
Scope and Content Note: Payne, it turns out, was too ill. Example of Payne's abilities and style.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   11:10
Baldanzi Second Guessed the Settlements within the Synthetic Fibers Industry
Scope and Content Note: Caused much friction within the organization.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   12:05
More on the Basic Cause of the Split
Scope and Content Note: During Rieve's involvement with the WLB, authority was not given over to Baldanzi. Rieve continued to make all policy decisions with Payne acting as Rieve's chief lieutenant.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   13:20
Baldanzi and Operation Dixie
Scope and Content Note: Baldanzi did select some people for the southern drive based on their allegiance.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   14:25
Rieve's 1949 Experiment with Special Assistants
Scope and Content Note: Bishop's appointment in charge of several southern states was an obvious political move.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   16:30
Baldanzi's Oratorical Abilities
Scope and Content Note: Union's rank and file liked him - he sounded like a crusader and they were very impressed with it. This oratory did not carry over into the Executive Council meetings.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   18:35
TWUA Leaders Who Sided with Baldanzi Genuinely Believed Rieve Was Being Unfair in Attempting to Push Him Out
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   19:00
Isadore Katz
Scope and Content Note: He wanted to be more than just the general counsel to TWUA; he wanted to have his own law firm; and Rieve would have none of it. By 1952, Katz felt there was an opportunity with Baldanzi for more power and more money.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   20:45
Other Issues That Contributed to the Split
Scope and Content Note: The issues of geography and democracy were good for Baldanzi but bad for the Union.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   22:00
Baldanzi Planted Democracy of the Union as an Issue
Scope and Content Note: Stetin thinks the Union was democratic.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   22:45
Who Lined Up with Whom
Scope and Content Note: Personalities motivated many people; it was not sociological, philosophical, ideological issues that caused people to line up behind either Rieve or Baldanzi. Some people did choose Baldanzi because they saw Rieve as a dictator.
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   24:10
The Bulk of the Dyers Backed Baldanzi
Tape/Side   5/2
Time   24:40
1950 Convention and the Amendments to the Constitution
Scope and Content Note: They were not genuine proposals and none passed; they were purely political.
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   00:00
Introduction
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   00:35
1950 Convention and the Amendments to the Constitution (Continued)
Scope and Content Note: One of Baldanzi's amendments would have given members the right to disapprove regional directors appointed by the national office. This presented an appearance of democracy but in reality it was a way to get rid of Roy Lawrence. Stetin feels this would have hindered the effort to organize the unorganized, because organizing is not a democratic process.
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   03:30
Local 6, Lewistown, Pennsylvania, TWUA'S Maverick Local
Scope and Content Note: A big synthetic local which supported Baldanzi.
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   04:25
Stetin Does Not See Geographic Jealousy or the 1949 Textile Economic Slowdown as Factors in the Fight
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   06:15
Failure to Defeat Baldanzi at the 1950 Convention
Scope and Content Note: Rieve group thought, before the convention, that they would win; but they misjudged the attitude of the union members and underestimated the difficulty of defeating an incumbent. Rieve did not view this as a rebuke by the membership.
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   08:00
Harold Daoust
Scope and Content Note: A hard-working, sincere, competent person who was devoted to the Union and to Bishop.
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   09:35
In Retrospect, Stetin Views June, 1951, Purge of Staff Members and Sam Baron's Dismissal as Unfortunate and Unnecessary
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   10:40
After the 1950 Convention Baldanzi and His Supporters Felt They Had to Take the Offensive; the Convention Had Given Them a Feeling of Power and Influence
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   12:10
Sam Baron Not Necessarily a Baldanzi Man from the Start
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   13:15
Stetin Had Distinct Feeling That the Baldanzi Situation Would Come to a Head Again at the 1952 Convention
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   14:00
Post-Convention Structure Committee of the Executive Council
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   15:50
1952 Convention
Scope and Content Note: Baldanzi supporters felt they had to make the run for the presidency, that the situation had to come to a head; one or the other had to be elected undisputed leader of the Union. Baldanzi people raised issue of financial malfeasance, but they were just grasping at straws, since Pollock was “as honest as they come.” Creation of new locals at Fall River in preparation for the convention was unnecessary and probably played into Baldanzi's hands by giving him another issue.
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   19:55
Rieve Saw Bishop as His Successor after the 1952 Convention
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   21:05
Rieve's Suggestion of an Executive Committee of the Executive Council, Made at the First Meeting after 1952 Convention
Scope and Content Note: It was a way of involving the Executive Council in policy making, since between 1948 and 1952 Baldanzi had contended that the department heads were running the Union and not the Executive Council.
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   23:25
Ushers at the 1952 Convention and their “Reward”
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   24:20
The Secession Movement
Scope and Content Note: Baldanzi convinced his supporters that they could change the structure of the UTW.
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   25:20
Once Baldanzi Reached the Leadership Level of UTW, He Did Not Change That Union Very Much
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   26:05
Some of the Local Unions Who Were Part of the Secession Movement Later Returned to TWUA
Tape/Side   6/1
Time   26:45
Purge of Baldanzi Supporters after the 1952 Convention Was a Mistake
Scope and Content Note: People like Lew Conn and Charlie Serraino could have remained comfortably within TWUA.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   00:00
Introduction
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   00:35
The Secession Movement in Stetin's Area
Scope and Content Note: Not too many people left TWUA. Some areas needed more attention in order to keep people from leaving, specifically Wilkes-Barre, Paterson-Passaic, and Philadelphia.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   01:40
Anecdote Concerning the Philadelphia Joint Board and Secession
Scope and Content Note: Rieve decided an administrator should be appointed to manage the affairs of the Joint Board. It was determined by Stetin and Ralph Cline, the administrator, that the locks on the doors of the Joint Board would have to be changed, but at the last moment Stetin could not go through with it. Joe Hueter was debating with Rieve supporters on the merits of seceding to UTW. Rieve people placed a newspaper ad inviting Philadelphia textile workers to listen to Baldanzi speak on radio about the UTW. Hueter assumed the ad had been placed by Baldanzi people, but the speech turned out to be an attack on the UTW which Baldanzi had made seven years earlier. There was a real danger of the entire Philadelphia Joint Board seceding from TWUA.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   06:20
Charlie Hughes Supported Baldanzi Because He Did Not Like Jack Rubenstein
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   07:35
Jack Rubenstein's Resignation as Carpet Director
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   08:30
Baldanzi Supporters Could Have Remained in TWUA and Returned to the Executive Council
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   09:10
A Grudge Held by John L. Lewis Against Rieve and the TWUA Prompted the United Mine Workers' Loan to the UTW During the Secession Movement
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   10:10
1951 Southern Strike
Scope and Content Note: Neither side wanted to strike, but at the same time neither side wanted to appear soft or non-militant.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   12:15
The South and Unionism
Scope and Content Note: The situation in the South could possibly have had a different outcome if there had been a strike in the period just prior to the Second World War - there was more money and more resources available at that time, as well as more spirit.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   13:30
TWOC Spent Only 18 Months Organizing and Most of That Organizing Occurred in the North
Scope and Content Note: A serious mistake to constitutionalize and thereby politicize the Union so soon.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   14:30
Although There Was No Solid Basis for a Successful Strike in the South in 1951, TWUA Thought They Had the Membership Behind Them
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   15:20
Aftermath of the 1951 Southern Strike
Scope and Content Note: Stetin does not agree with those who claim the strike was lost because Danville had too much public relations and community action and not enough anti-bossism; a combination of both is needed for successful unionism. The Union lost the strike; no blame should have been placed on one side or the other. Politics was not a factor in the loss of the strike, it was simply an ineffective strike; the people just did not support the Union. Rieve's claim that Josephine McLaughlin and her “modern unionism” in Danville was a cause for losing the strike was erroneous because she was as anti-boss as anyone in the labor movement.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   21:10
Danville Was the Union's Showcase in the South
Scope and Content Note: TWUA had its own building and there was much community involvement - a good example of modern unionism.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   22:55
Rieve Made an Issue Out of “Modern Unionism” as a Way of Finding Fault
Scope and Content Note: This was a mistake. The entire TWUA lost the strike, not the local unions or the joint board.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   24:00
More on Danville, the Largest Single Textile Unit in the World
Scope and Content Note: Danville was special and was a major inroad into the South, thus making the defeat there more significant.
Tape/Side   6/2
Time   26:25
Stetin Favored Giving More Attention to the South, and Pouring More Money into the Danville Strike
Scope and Content Note: The leadership, however, determined that the situation was lost. Money was not a factor in the defeat.
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   00:00
Introduction
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   00:35
Militancy of the Black Workers in Danville During the 1951 Southern Strike
Scope and Content Note: Somewhat of a surprise because the textile industry and hence the Union did not have many blacks.
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   01:15
Lack of Support from Other CIO Unions During the Strike May Have Been Because of the Friction within TWUA
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   02:40
Short-Term and Long-Term Effects of the 1951 Southern Strike on TWUA
Scope and Content Note: The strike itself, plus the secession of Danville to the UTW, had a demoralizing effect on TWUA in the South. The monetary cost of the strike led to less militancy and more caution about future actions in the South. Losing the checkoff as a result of secession also was detrimental.
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   06:35
More on the Decline of TWUA
Scope and Content Note: In addition to the “four horsemen,” the Taft-Hartley Act, the internal fight, and the Southern strike all contributed to the decline.
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   09:05
Textile Industry Experienced First What Other Unions Are Experiencing Now
Scope and Content Note: Many labor leaders refuse to admit that their power and strength is not as great as it is portrayed in the media. This situation a contributing factor in Stetin recommending merger with the ACW.
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   10:35
Foresight Concerning the Recession in the Early 1950s
Scope and Content Note: Sol Barkin urged diversification; there were discussions with employers, but TWUA was limited in what it could do.
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   12:25
TWUA Leadership's View of the Situation During the Mid-1950s Decline
Scope and Content Note: Made some efforts to stem the decline, like pushing for Area Redevelopment legislation; but by and large realized that “The only time working people are fully employed at their machines is when other workers are employed at machine guns.”
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   16:25
Imports Became a Major Issue with the Union in the Early 1950s
Scope and Content Note: Migration, mergers, and imports were all problems which caused concern. Rieve proposed an International Fair Labor Standards Act, but there was no support from the other CIO unions. Even the International Ladies' Garment Workers (ILG) and the ACW ridiculed TWUA as “protectionists.”
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   18:30
Cooperative Employers Was the Biggest Factor Contributing to NLRB Election Victories by TWUA in the 1950s
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   20:45
Loss of the CIO Spirit
Scope and Content Note: Caused by merger with the AFL. CIO unions became “AFLized.” Everyone from the leadership down to the shop steward came to identify more with the foremen and the executives than with the workers.
Tape/Side   7/1
Time   24:30
Stetin Does Not Agree That TWUA Became More Conservative
Scope and Content Note: Points to the Union's progressive stand on civil rights at 1956 and 1960 conventions as evidence.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   00:00
Introduction
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   00:30
Rieve Retired in 1956 for Reasons of Health
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   01:30
Emil Rieve
Scope and Content Note: Very able organizer and tactician. As Hosiery Federation president, he made many great contributions; in his role with the CIO he was well respected by both CIO leaders and government leaders. He had a way of getting the best out of people.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   03:25
Statistics on the Textile Movement from 1933 - Dyers and Hosiery Specifically
Scope and Content Note: Claims Dyers and Hosiery had more members at the time of founding of TWOC than others admit to.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   04:50
The Big Mistake, for Which Rieve Must Share Some Blame, Was That TWOC Ceased to Exist Too Soon
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   05:15
Difference in TWUA under Rieve and Pollock
Scope and Content Note: Pollock more conservative than Rieve in financial matters.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   06:35
Rieve's Statement at the 1964 Convention Concerning Pollock; That Speech a Terrible Mistake
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   07:15
More Usage of Governmental Agencies under Pollock Than under Rieve Due to the Fact That Kennedy Was President
Scope and Content Note: Kennedy was sympathetic to textiles having come from a textile background; and TWUA had always helped his campaigns.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   11:35
Pollock as President of TWUA
Scope and Content Note: Pollock was a very honest, committed, dedicated trade union leader. With the Union in a decline at the time he took over, it was a very difficult period for him. As a result of Pollock's involvement of TWUA in the struggle with J.P. Stevens in the 1960s, ultimately a new period in the American labor movement has been brought about.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   12:55
Early Relationship of Rieve and Pollock
Scope and Content Note: They had many arguments over who was to make decisions on how the money was to be spent.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   13:50
Opposition to Pollock Becoming Executive Vice President after Bishop's Death
Scope and Content Note: There was a strong feeling that John Chupka was much closer to the membership and that this made him the logical choice. Rieve offered Chupka the position, but Chupka refused as he felt it was more of an anti-Pollock move than a pro-Chupka move. Other possibilities concerning the position were discussed at great length. Rieve did not assume a leadership role. Stetin's scheme for four vice presidents did not draw much support.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   21:10
Rieve Did Not Want Pollock to Become President of TWUA
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   23:10
Resolution of the 1956 Convention Condemning White Citizens Councils
Scope and Content Note: Southerners spoke against the resolution because they believed that position would hurt TWUA in the South. Although some members walked out of the convention, they did not walk out of TWUA. There were no membership losses over this issue.
Tape/Side   7/2
Time   26:40
Burlington Drive
Scope and Content Note: Undertaken largely for the purposes of agitation and education; it was not given the same kind of attention as that given to J.P. Stevens.
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   00:00
Introduction
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   00:35
Burlington Drive (Continued)
Scope and Content Note: A decision of the leadership. Though the drive was begun while textiles were still in a recession, organizing was an ongoing process.
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   01:45
Southern Agitational Wage Drives
Scope and Content Note: System used in 1930s by Dyers. Useful not only for getting wage increases but also for creating more interest among the unorganized workers.
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   04:40
Executive Council-Endorsed Executive Committee - 1956
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   06:25
Minority Opinion of the 1956 Convention Finance Committee Concerning Dues Increases
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   07:45
Strike Defense Fund Created in 1960
Scope and Content Note: Came about largely because of the Harriett-Henderson strike.
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   08:35
1960 Congressional Investigation of the NLRB Was Supported Mostly by TWUA
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   09:55
TWUA, UTW, and the No-Raid Agreement
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   11:55
Racketeering in the UTW Was a Major Factor Why TWUA Did Not Push for Merger in the Mid-1950s
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   12:40
George Meany Could Have Played a Major Role in a TWUA/UTW Merger But Did Not
Scope and Content Note: Part of the AFL philosophy of not forcing affiliates to act.
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   14:05
UTW May Have Accepted Baldanzi as Its President in Order to Help Make a Breakthrough in the South
Tape/Side   8/1
Time   15:00
Even If TWUA and UTW Had Merged, It Is Unlikely That Baldanzi Could Ever Have Returned to the TWUA in a Leadership Position
Scope and Content Note: Baldanzi went through the motions of working for merger, but probably never would have permitted it.
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